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Suggestion Griefing is out of control

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Shattered, Jan 3, 2017.

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  1. Shattered

    Shattered Well-Known Member Chat Moderator Supreme Premium

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    Just earlier today I’ve logged into the server to notice my whole town was completely obliterated by a user who was looking just to have some fun by griefing it.


    My house’s walls were removed, chests were gone, horses and farm animals were killed, the farm was seedless, the roads were full of holes with blocks randomly placed everywhere, and there was lava everywhere. The user’s whole purpose of doing this was for enjoyment, he didn’t even keep anything from my town. When I asked him why he did it, he said he did it because ‘I thought it was abandoned’, yet he knew it wasn’t abandoned & continued just because he could use that as an excuse.



    “Mick and I told him it wasn’t abandoned and asked he stopped, he said he knew it was occupied, yet continued


    I told him it was your town and I wasn’t sure whether you’d want him to live in it or not, but he said you two were friends and you wouldn’t mind, I still insisted he asked you about it.” - Yuno // Habin


    Heck if someone didn’t tell him, you can’t assume something is abandoned just seeing it on first sight, he hasn’t seen our town sit there for months untouched with no signs of ownership (as an abandoned town would have). Just because something isn’t yours, or isn’t claimed shouldn’t make you assume it’s ‘abandoned’ and that you have full rights to do whatever you want with it.


    Our town had signs everywhere linking ownership, you could of done /seen & found out that the owners were last seen just hours ago.


    You could also say ‘Well Shattered why didn’t you claim it? And I thought I did, but I don’t know how to use the claim plugin, besides I didn’t teleport people I don’t trust inside, shouldn’t of been a problem if I didn’t claim it.


    The whole point of this thread is to point out that people are destroying everything they can, just because they can and every time their excuse is ‘its unclaimed’, ‘its abandoned’, or ‘griefing is allowed now’... If the server rules are allowing & enforcing users to make these sort of excuses to grief it needs to be changed.

    We’d like the following changes below made:

    • A rule put in place where you can no longer grief whatever you see that’s unclaimed, just because its unclaimed doesn’t mean it's yours. It also doesn't mean it's abandoned, However you still can take over abandoned structures. (and we will cover whats abandoned and whats not next.)

    • Guidelines explaining how to tell if a house is abandoned, or if it's not. Just because you see something that isn’t claimed doesn’t mean it’s abandoned. A structure is abandoned if the owner hasn’t played on the server for over 2 months. Claims will automatically expire after 2 months, but not all people claim all of their structures therefor you can not go by the claim system to tell you if a structure is abandoned. To tell if the owner hasn’t played in over 2 months and has abandoned the server you’d run the command ‘/seen [username]’. Obviously if there is no signs proving ownership the structure is not that important & has no ownership. People are abusing this abandoned excuse by calling everything they see ‘abandoned’.

    Griefing with malicious intentions, vs moderate griefing.

    An example of griefing with malicious intentions would be destroying everything you can & causing terror for fun. An example of moderate griefing would be taking items out of a chest.


    Griefing with malicious intentions will not be allowed, users will be punished if found doing so. Moderate griefing will be allowed however we will not enforce it. If someone’s house gets moderately griefed we will fix it for them if it wasn’t claimed, and we’d tell them to claim it. However if they don’t claim it and it gets moderately griefed again we won’t help them fix it. If someones house gets griefed by a griefer with malicious intentions it will always be rolled back.



    We’d like these changes put in place. The server is getting too out of hand, people are doing things they shouldn’t be & are using the current server rules as excuses.
     
  2. spiny

    spiny www.tribewars.net Premium

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    The whole reason they put the claim feature on the server is so they wouldn't have to deal with this. People will continue to be stupid and grief anyways.
     
  3. Shattered

    Shattered Well-Known Member Chat Moderator Supreme Premium

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    I dont want to see this become a faction server. I don't want to tell people 'please don't steal' before I accept a teleport request from them. I want to feel safe on the server, and we need two more rules. Most people won't grief if they knew it could result in a ban.
     
  4. spiny

    spiny www.tribewars.net Premium

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    I'm sure you don't, but there's no saying who joins the server. Until the server is whitelisted to trusted members, there will always be greifing.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2017 ---
    I don't see how you disagree with this, this is a fact.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  5. Justis R

    Justis R Godfather Resource Moderator Moderator Supreme Premium

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    I know that because we previously had a rule against griefing, some previous builds which were left unprotected by those not using the claim system are starting out a bit rough.
    However, I still believe that removing a generic rule which relies on opinions of each situation and requires reaction and rollbacks and replacing it with a prevention system, which enforces a constant and unwaveringly fair truth (that if it's claimed you can't grief it), is much better in the long run for our server community.

    However, if the community feels that enforcing and reacting to grief on areas of land 'owned(but not claimed) by people who refuse to claim that land, for whatever reason; is a better option... I'd like only to offer that griefing should only be bannable/roll-backable when the person doing the griefing knows full well that they're causing distress to another member.
    Thus still encouraging that people don't remain stubborn or ignorant to our claiming system and relying solely on rules and rollbacks (which, btw are easily abused to duplicate items/blocks).

    Interested to hear what everyone says, but seriously. If you want to protect something, all it takes is two corner clicks of a golden shovel, which you can get with /kit claim. I really do feel like suggestion this is more trouble for everyone than it's worth in the long run.

    Then claim it, and don't /trust them.


    The claim system was to prevent griefing entirely.
    The ONLY way you can get griefed is if you don't claim the stuff you want.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  6. CustomCode

    CustomCode Active Member

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    This will maybe make you learn a lesson as to always make sure you claimed the stuff you want to keep.

    You could always ask for the server to add a [Private] sign if it isn't already added.
     
  7. Shattered

    Shattered Well-Known Member Chat Moderator Supreme Premium

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    Jeeze who also agreed with that.

    I already suggested private signs in the past and they were denied.
    I protected most of my chests, just not my house, farm, roads, and yard.

    It may stop some grief if they start getting people to move to the claim plugin, but it isn't stopping grief when the server rules allow it.

    Comeon, this is a SMP & the rules are the SAME AS A FACTION SERVER. How do you not agree with me?
     
  8. CustomCode

    CustomCode Active Member

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    I do agree with you, but if you maybe should keep your stuff that is valuable not in chests in your claim?
    Such as making an ender chest or storing it in a private place;)
     
  9. TylBur

    TylBur Front-End Designer Premium

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    Honestly I don't understand this post at all. You're claiming that the non-griefing rule should be re-added simply because people are to lazy and /or/ naive to use the fairly simple claiming plugin currently implemented.

    At the point where people are getting griefed due to a lack of claiming, is that not the fault of the person who failed to properly claim the area?
     
  10. Justis R

    Justis R Godfather Resource Moderator Moderator Supreme Premium

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    This is nothing like a faction server. Having the least amount of rules possible is simply the benefit of having systems in place for stopping the actions we do not wish to happen on our server.
    We do not have rules against PVP because we're implementing a system of preventing people from attacking others who do not wish to be attacked, and we deny pvp in claims.
    We do not have a rule against griefing because it is impossible to grief a chest, items, mobs, blocks, anything from bedrock to sky that another member has claimed as their own. That's all it takes.

    Rules are there to cover holes in an incomplete system; but they are themselves a hole. The more rules you have, the more flawed you know your system is. My goal is to prevent things from happening that we don't wish to happen, and not to rely on moderators, and rollbacks and opinions to enforce them.
     
  11. spiny

    spiny www.tribewars.net Premium

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    But they aren't. Claim your land next time, as I said there's no saying who will join the server. And no matter what the rules state, if a player has intentions to ruin things they will.
     
  12. Shattered

    Shattered Well-Known Member Chat Moderator Supreme Premium

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    In order to join the server you have to have an associated Minecraft account with MCM.
     
  13. spiny

    spiny www.tribewars.net Premium

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    And there's sure a lot of untrusted members on MCM.
     
  14. BeBosny

    BeBosny https://www.anvilnode.com Supreme Premium

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    Why are you complaining if you didn't claim your stuff? Claiming is extremely easy to do. Hell, the plugin even comes with video tutorials pre made.

    I don't think the rule should be added.
    It seems like you created this suggestion out of rage.

    Everything aside, I think it's a matter of time before the server dies out again. Mick is underestimating the potential of the server. I'm not seeing any extra publicity or hype made on the forum around it which disappoints me. When I was planning this revamp I really wanted to do it properly, instead Mick completely failed.

    I had a sticky in this section which had some explanation about the server. I trashed it yesterday myself because it was outdated and contained incorrect information which nobody thought of updating. There's literally no place to find the server IP atm.
     
  15. Boycot

    Boycot Hosting Expert Supreme Premium

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    It's not even the griefing that bothers me. It's the fact that the server is ran like we're a group of friends who trust each other with everything. But let me tell you, we're not.

    Today I logged in and was informed of Shattered's situation. I teleported over to his town (as I was a member) and did discover my apartment and restaurant had damage. I then logged in again around an hour later, and found the user who did the damage at the town, who happened to be apologizing to everyone.

    You'd think all is well, but I'm afraid this is just the start. A bit after the user decided that he'd have some fun with me and put lava on the ground where I was, to burn me to a crispy death. I then teleported to the spawn where I figured I would be safe, but I did in fact die there. I figured I could just get my stuff back by running to where I died. But believe this, the user who killed me teleported to spawn as well. He took my stuff and wouldn't give it back. Well, he gave me some bread, but I'm afraid that wasn't what I really wanted to see at the time. Took him way to long before he gave me my stuff back, and even Justis R offered to compensate for my losses, however I did decline as there was no way that it would have been fair to him offering me stuff he earned himself.

    What I would like to see is that the server is ran like a normal server, not like a Minecraft Realm group. Just make a few rules, and enforce them. Everyone would be a heck lot happier, especially me.
     
  16. Justis R

    Justis R Godfather Resource Moderator Moderator Supreme Premium

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    - Compromise accepted
    As stated here: http://www.mc-market.org/threads/162132/#post-1688188

    I'll be writing up an official thread explaining how our TOS (which our server inherits) translates to the MCM server.
    In this way, users will not be allowed to "maliciously grief" or otherwise impede on the health of the server and it's community. (though we will still use the GP plugin for claiming land, marking it as yours, and protecting it. We'll not rollback your chests every time an item is stolen. Protect it)
    iv) You will not use the Service in a way that could interfere with, disrupt, negatively affect, or inhibit other users from fully enjoying the Service, or that could damage, disable, overburden, or impair the functioning of the Service;

    We'll not be adding more server rules, because the server rules already inherit our TOS.
    We will however, be clarifying that we will enforce our TOS, and the manner in which we enforce it via the aforementioned official post.

    Thanks for the suggestion, and everyone who offered feedback.
     
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