No more ads in chat

Andy B.

A boi
Supreme
Reputation
48
Posts
767
Reactions
450
Resources
0
Type
Suggestion
ReliableSite: Dedicated Servers

Landon

wow!
Ultimate
Reputation
113
Posts
1,947
Reactions
2,039
Resources
34
I would like to heavily express how effective (granted, annoying) chatbot advertising can be, and I will go as far to provide some statistics.

In this graphic, you can see "transitions", which show how users find, and leave a website. You can see, when looking at source websites specifically, MC-Market makes up for 67% of our website-sourced views. I'm sure it is safe to say, for people using the chatbox as often as we are, the results would be similar. It is truly a good, free, go-to for advertising what people create.

View attachment 493360

If anything, could the time between advertisements be expanded, to allow for more conversation in-between? Time for people to digest what was said earlier.

It is not uncommon for there to be 1-2 hour breaks in conversation, the current once per 20 min rule is partially to blame for the chatbox filling as it is. What you are actually seeing is, a drop in user activity on site, meaning less natural conversation in chat, meaning seeing double ads (that are perfectly "legal").
Does your 67% differentiate between shoutbox clicks vs. clicks from thread(s)?
 

RileyN

Net Sys Admin | AstroVPN CEO
Premium
Reputation
4
Posts
338
Reactions
182
Resources
0
Does your 67% differentiate between shoutbox clicks vs. clicks from thread(s)?
This is a really good question, unfortunately it does not, however, it is very rare that our thread is bumped. More often that not I find myself advertising in chat than bumping my thread(s).

Maybe that’s something for MCM to consider as well, how bumping threads could eliminate this chat box challenge.
 

King

PXLMC Owner
Banned
Reputation
3
Posts
315
Reactions
117
Resources
0
Personality, I'm new to the community and I do believe to me the about of advertising in the chat feature is alarming but we also need to note that the oftentimes it appears flooded with advertising but if you look at the message send times you can see it's not as flooded as you might assume, yes there is a lot of users adverting in that chat but they are hopefully abiding by the chat roles when it comes to adverting.

If there's an active discussion in the chatbox then the "flood" of adverts is not as severe as what you might assume it is during low activity.

For me personally I feel it's fine but the issue to me is not the adverts but rather the lack of conversations on the chat box.
 
Banned forever. Reason: Ban Evading (HarmfulAim, https://www.mc-market.org/members/115182/)

Ally

gσ∂∂єѕѕ σƒ мαтнѕ αη∂ мєℓσηѕ χσ
Ultimate
Reputation
37
Posts
2,232
Reactions
2,191
Resources
1
expanded, to allow for more conversation in-between?
I just really want to point this out here.

What this thread is suggesting is a fix to a symptom of a problem that's been pretty apparent for a while now. The symptom being excessive ads relative to the amount of conversation in the chatbox at any given time. The problem being that people aren't holding as many, or as frequent lively conversations as they used to.

Personally I don't have a solution to that and I don't want this response to rile people up more. I think what people need to realise though is that this market is being taken in a direction where the chat is not considered the priority, and resources are. What I'm not saying is that we shouldn't care about it, but it helps when you can consider what's happening in the context of the site as a whole.
 

Sir_Craftypants

Premium
Reputation
0
Posts
2
Reactions
4
Resources
26
Personally i don't see the issue, granted i haven't been here as long as some of you but i have 22 resources after being here a few months and i've never advertised in chat so far but, from my short time experience i've barely ever seen many people talking in there anyway and i'm online pretty much every day.

Maybe a suggestion of being able to disable ads and have those placing an ad setting it as an ad in some way.
 
Last edited:

DN

Web Developer
Ultimate
Reputation
10
Posts
177
Reactions
42
Resources
0
Maybe hiding ads for Supreme/Ultimate?
 

Ted

Undergrad
Supreme
Reputation
57
Posts
1,919
Reactions
801
Resources
2
I disagree. Although chatbox advertising isn't viable, it's still partly affective for their business. If website ads weren't so expensive, they would take to those. If were going to remove ads from shoutbox, make ad prices much lower.
 

Mick

MC-Market Owner
Administrator
Reputation
27
Posts
6,559
Reactions
7,401
Resources
1
Howdy folks, just chiming in with an idea (partially stolen from Dann and ArrowTan)

We've been experimenting a lot with a Discord server, and have managed to get it to a pretty good place to hopefully release early next week. We'll be entirely removing our onsite Chat and instead be moving everyone over to our Discord. We'll be embedding the #general channel into the homepage where the Chat used to be. The chat on the site will roughly look like this:

Screen Shot 2022-05-14 at 2.43.55 pm.png


The main thing we've had to consider is how to handle the current situation around advertising and the relation they have to activity in the chat. It's something that we've thought a lot about and there are compelling arguments on both sides. Some say that since we're a marketplace it makes sense to allow them, and others say that since we're a marketplace it makes no sense to allow them since we already have forums that do that. The current problems we have with ads in Chat will be made significantly worse if nothing changes, since Discord doesn't have a maximum message length like our Chat has. This means people could post extremely long ad messages with images and obnoxious emojis every 20 minutes-- not good.

Fundamentally I think that chat ads are great, they allow people to advertise their content for free and are quite effective at getting interest from the community when done right. I believe that the problem isn't that chat ads are happening, but that they're happening too often to the point that they're stifling conversation from occurring. The solution I'm proposing is to only allow users to advertise who are actively chatting anyways. This would be done with a custom system very similar to the one used by Pebblehost in their discord.

Every minute that you're actively chatting or in a voice call in our Discord you're awarded between 15 and 25 coins added to your balance in Discord. Once you have accrued at least 500 coins you can then spend them on having an ad sent by using the /ads command to enter your ad. The ad will be sent in the #general channel along with people's messages. We'll limit your ads to only be a certain length and follow the same sort of policies that we currently have. Once you submit the ad, you'll have 500 coins deducted and it will be posted by our bot if it passes all our checks. An example of what an ad could look like is:

Screen Shot 2022-05-14 at 2.58.40 pm.png

(sorry, I use light theme Discord)

The numbers I've proposed here haven't been considered in detail and the value of this system is that we would be able to tweak the numbers at any time to allow for more or fewer ads to be made if we feel the balance isn't right. Having this coins system could also allow us to add more fun things for users who engage in chat and gamify the experience a bit. Maybe a permanent profile medal that costs like 100,000 coins or a way to convert 5,000 coins into $2.50 of MC-Market Credits to give people other bonuses for engaging with us. Gamifying it a bit.

The number of ads would be directly correlated with the amount of discussion occurring, and you'd only get access to people's eyeballs if you're also contributing. We'd of course have to amend our policies to disallow advertising by sending messages and work out a clever way to phrase it that makes it clear about what is allowed and what isn't. That's going to be tricky to do, and the entire plan relies on us being able to do that. I'm imagining that I'd want it to say something like that you're allowed to discuss your projects and send links, but can't explicitly promote any products/services that you are affiliated with.

The biggest downside is the added moderation required to ensure that people aren't bypassing the system, but that's going to be the case with all of the moderation that we have to do anyways.

So what do we think?
 

Octanna

Premium
Reputation
1
Posts
21
Reactions
10
Resources
0
Howdy folks, just chiming in with an idea (partially stolen from Dann and ArrowTan)

We've been experimenting a lot with a Discord server, and have managed to get it to a pretty good place to hopefully release early next week. We'll be entirely removing our onsite Chat and instead be moving everyone over to our Discord. We'll be embedding the #general channel into the homepage where the Chat used to be. The chat on the site will roughly look like this:

View attachment 507734

The main thing we've had to consider is how to handle the current situation around advertising and the relation they have to activity in the chat. It's something that we've thought a lot about and there are compelling arguments on both sides. Some say that since we're a marketplace it makes sense to allow them, and others say that since we're a marketplace it makes no sense to allow them since we already have forums that do that. The current problems we have with ads in Chat will be made significantly worse if nothing changes, since Discord doesn't have a maximum message length like our Chat has. This means people could post extremely long ad messages with images and obnoxious emojis every 20 minutes-- not good.

Fundamentally I think that chat ads are great, they allow people to advertise their content for free and are quite effective at getting interest from the community when done right. I believe that the problem isn't that chat ads are happening, but that they're happening too often to the point that they're stifling conversation from occurring. The solution I'm proposing is to only allow users to advertise who are actively chatting anyways. This would be done with a custom system very similar to the one used by Pebblehost in their discord.

Every minute that you're actively chatting or in a voice call in our Discord you're awarded between 15 and 25 coins added to your balance in Discord. Once you have accrued at least 500 coins you can then spend them on having an ad sent by using the /ads command to enter your ad. The ad will be sent in the #general channel along with people's messages. We'll limit your ads to only be a certain length and follow the same sort of policies that we currently have. Once you submit the ad, you'll have 500 coins deducted and it will be posted by our bot if it passes all our checks. An example of what an ad could look like is:

View attachment 507735
(sorry, I use light theme Discord)

The numbers I've proposed here haven't been considered in detail and the value of this system is that we would be able to tweak the numbers at any time to allow for more or fewer ads to be made if we feel the balance isn't right. Having this coins system could also allow us to add more fun things for users who engage in chat and gamify the experience a bit. Maybe a permanent profile medal that costs like 100,000 coins or a way to convert 5,000 coins into $2.50 of MC-Market Credits to give people other bonuses for engaging with us. Gamifying it a bit.

The number of ads would be directly correlated with the amount of discussion occurring, and you'd only get access to people's eyeballs if you're also contributing. We'd of course have to amend our policies to disallow advertising by sending messages and work out a clever way to phrase it that makes it clear about what is allowed and what isn't. That's going to be tricky to do, and the entire plan relies on us being able to do that. I'm imagining that I'd want it to say something like that you're allowed to discuss your projects and send links, but can't explicitly promote any products/services that you are affiliated with.

The biggest downside is the added moderation required to ensure that people aren't bypassing the system, but that's going to be the case with all of the moderation that we have to do anyways.

So what do we think?
Nice idea Mick I dig it
 

xYoxa

Divide By Zero™ CEO
Premium
Reputation
2
Posts
166
Reactions
38
Resources
3
Howdy folks, just chiming in with an idea (partially stolen from Dann and ArrowTan)

We've been experimenting a lot with a Discord server, and have managed to get it to a pretty good place to hopefully release early next week. We'll be entirely removing our onsite Chat and instead be moving everyone over to our Discord. We'll be embedding the #general channel into the homepage where the Chat used to be. The chat on the site will roughly look like this:

View attachment 507734

The main thing we've had to consider is how to handle the current situation around advertising and the relation they have to activity in the chat. It's something that we've thought a lot about and there are compelling arguments on both sides. Some say that since we're a marketplace it makes sense to allow them, and others say that since we're a marketplace it makes no sense to allow them since we already have forums that do that. The current problems we have with ads in Chat will be made significantly worse if nothing changes, since Discord doesn't have a maximum message length like our Chat has. This means people could post extremely long ad messages with images and obnoxious emojis every 20 minutes-- not good.

Fundamentally I think that chat ads are great, they allow people to advertise their content for free and are quite effective at getting interest from the community when done right. I believe that the problem isn't that chat ads are happening, but that they're happening too often to the point that they're stifling conversation from occurring. The solution I'm proposing is to only allow users to advertise who are actively chatting anyways. This would be done with a custom system very similar to the one used by Pebblehost in their discord.

Every minute that you're actively chatting or in a voice call in our Discord you're awarded between 15 and 25 coins added to your balance in Discord. Once you have accrued at least 500 coins you can then spend them on having an ad sent by using the /ads command to enter your ad. The ad will be sent in the #general channel along with people's messages. We'll limit your ads to only be a certain length and follow the same sort of policies that we currently have. Once you submit the ad, you'll have 500 coins deducted and it will be posted by our bot if it passes all our checks. An example of what an ad could look like is:

View attachment 507735
(sorry, I use light theme Discord)

The numbers I've proposed here haven't been considered in detail and the value of this system is that we would be able to tweak the numbers at any time to allow for more or fewer ads to be made if we feel the balance isn't right. Having this coins system could also allow us to add more fun things for users who engage in chat and gamify the experience a bit. Maybe a permanent profile medal that costs like 100,000 coins or a way to convert 5,000 coins into $2.50 of MC-Market Credits to give people other bonuses for engaging with us. Gamifying it a bit.

The number of ads would be directly correlated with the amount of discussion occurring, and you'd only get access to people's eyeballs if you're also contributing. We'd of course have to amend our policies to disallow advertising by sending messages and work out a clever way to phrase it that makes it clear about what is allowed and what isn't. That's going to be tricky to do, and the entire plan relies on us being able to do that. I'm imagining that I'd want it to say something like that you're allowed to discuss your projects and send links, but can't explicitly promote any products/services that you are affiliated with.

The biggest downside is the added moderation required to ensure that people aren't bypassing the system, but that's going to be the case with all of the moderation that we have to do anyways.

So what do we think?
I don't forgive you for using flashbang mode you flashbanged me.
 

Ted

Undergrad
Supreme
Reputation
57
Posts
1,919
Reactions
801
Resources
2
"Advertises", couple minutes later...
GOD DAMN LOOK AT ALL THESE ADS!
 
Top
You need to upgrade!
Our dark style is reserved for our Premium members. Upgrade here.